Help! Battery for 1000w ebike

2

Comments

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    That nanotech 6s6ah are exactly the ones I tested my eBike with ... You WILL drain them quickly so go easy on the throttle until you get a few cycles of charge/discharge on them to condition the packs and develop low cell resistance. Put a HXT4 connector on your controller power lead ... watch the polarity it will be opposite of the battery ... positive is male on the controller and female on the battery.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    @Jason Phelan said:
    Sounds like a bit of a back story there. /me gets popcorn.

    @ElectricBike
    Been there done that. Big cables, small soldering iron. Heatsoak damage in 3..2..1..

    So go another idea for ya. Have you thought about RC Car packs like this.

    BTW the plug hole goes all the way through. You'll still need to make a wiring loom, but you'll only need to solder connecters. Any heat build up won't soak back to the cells and risk damaging them. Though you may want to invest in a butane soldering iron for this..

    Just a thought.

    Nice in terms of being able to replace a bad cell but you need 12 of them and connections on a bike need to be strong. Do you solder to those holes or use banana plugs? 90C is way more amps than you need and usually that means higher cost.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    Story ... My 75 year old buddy has the first eBike build I did last summer. He left it in his condo leaning against the wall and battery connected ... Power switch on the battery box was off but has a 1500 ohm resistor across the switch as precharge for the controller caps. He didn't use it for 3 weeks and guess what ... Bumped the handlebar controller switch on and drained the two Multistar 6s10ah batteries to zero volts. They did not puff! One charged up and continues to work great from completely drained while the other has only two cells out of 6 that would charge. Rule of thumb is disconnect your battery when done! Even the balance port cell monitor meters will discharge the battery eventually.

    That sucks, i will keep that in mind.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    P606 is a balance connector charger that takes a while but does a great job of getting every cell full with the mAh for each cell displayed. That lets you know if you have a problem and how big. Yeah multistar batteries have issues if you are careful they do well since an eBike is drawing about 30amps max all should be good. 18650 cells require several in parallel to get 30amps and weight starts to add up quickly. Put a couple of 6s6ah nano-tech batteries in a padded bag and you are good to go and at 20C you have way more amps (120A) just KEEP the cell volts above 3.6 and they should not puff. The HXT4 connector on older nano-tech packs can do a series connect by plugging into each other or make a jumper with a small halogen bulb 120v and 30amp power switch for your charging circuit. The voltage of 6s is 25.2 at full charge X2 is 50.4 volts (12x4.2) and since most chargers handle 6 cell packs stick with two 6 cell packs! If you can wait for black Friday for a sale like I did last year ...oh boy did I go crazy 6s12ah graphene! Talk about low output resistance!

    Ugh, its hard to learn this when u are 100% beginner but i will try. I can for sure wait untill black friday if u think i can get a decent battery for 100-130dollars. I wrote to the ebay seller he/she said the kit had a 26amp contoller, so 48vx26amp = 1248 that means the kit can go up to 1258 ax maximum insatead of 1000w? Any tip on a good 6s6ah batteries?

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman @Jason Phelan

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-10000mah-6s-12c-multi-rotor-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html or the 8000mah version could work fine? i really hope its atlĺeast 30-40% on this in the nearest future... i would also like 50% off XD

    u said if i full charge them (example IMAX B6??) they will be 50.4 as max? so if i buy 10ah verison and its not enough i could just add one later? or is it just adding up volts? thanks!

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 13,584 ✭✭✭

    A 6S battery fully charged is 25.2Volts. You need two of them wired in series to make a 12S 50.4Volt pack.

    So, two 8000mAh 6S packs wired in series = 8000mAh 12S. Only the voltage increases, not the capacity.

  • Jason PhelanJason Phelan Club Members Posts: 60

    @electric bike, my rule of thumb is buy the highest capacity battery pack I can afford.

    Is it just me or is the nominated voltage off? Normally machines designed around lipos specify lipo voltages. 48v is a pb voltage. Wondering if the few volts difference even matter?

    @JanComputerman. Re your story. Seen the same in a mobility scooter. Only 'Ol Mate left it plugged in deliberately. Thought it was the same as the lead acid battery model. Supplier in this instance was great and replaced them after agreeing the instructions were ambiguous.
    Sadly just sloppy programmers and cheap accounts departments. Throw a decent processor and write the code and you could create a charger that could charge lipos unattended in a keg of gunpowder safely.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    @electric bike said:

    @JanComputerman said:
    P606 is a balance connector charger that takes a while but does a great job of getting

    Ugh, its hard to learn this when u are 100% beginner but i will try. I can for sure wait untill black friday if u think i can get a decent battery for 100-130dollars. I wrote to the ebay seller he/she said the kit had a 26amp contoller, so 48vx26amp = 1248 that means the kit can go up to 1258 ax maximum insatead of 1000w? Any tip on a good 6s6ah batteries?

    I have several chargers and they all balance charge ok but not really very accurate on the final voltage plus they require you to plug in the power connector and the balance connector. The P606 runs on AC or 12-18 volts dc and all you need to plug in is the balance connector of the battery leaving the power connector alone. Now if you want you can parallel the balance connectors if the two batteries are at the same voltage and charge level and charge them both in parallel at the same time. Might take 7 or 8 hours but they both get fully charged. Simple and easy. Later on when you want to go further you can get more packs and wire them in parallel with the first set. For max speed you need 14s which I do with a 6s pack and 2 - 4s packs in series. 58+ volts! 41mph down hill. I don't see the 6s6ah nanotech in stock but yeah watch for sales all month at hobby king.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    Nominal voltage is usually based on lead batteries where they run at 12.6 volts and can charge as high as 15 volts and discharge as low at 10.2 volts. Lipo 4.2 high and low 3.5 volts per cell. 4x15 v is 60volts but 4x12 is 48 so that's why it's confusing.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    Nominal voltage is usually based on lead batteries where they run at 12.6 volts and can charge as high as 15 volts and discharge as low at 10.2 volts. Lipo 4.2 high and low 3.5 volts per cell. 4x15 v is 60volts but 4x12 is 48 so that's why it's confusing.

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-6000mah-6s-25-50c-lipo-pack.html u mean these? hope they get in stock soon.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    Any tip where u can buy a display for the kit, that shows watt and km/h?

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    @electric bike said:
    Any tip where u can buy a display for the kit, that shows watt and km/h?

    They don't have anything that links watts and mileage and the best out there is Grintech Cycle Analyst $130 eBike.ca but a cheap speedometer and a HK watt meter will do the trick with some mental math ...miles traveled watthours used.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    Those are the ones nano-tech 6s6ah I also picked up some 3s6ah packs at a good price that match them just less cells but like I said they can be plugged in series with their connector to as many you want and if you align the ends you can plug right in without splitting a connector.
    There is a $10 sale on 9.6v 5000mah nano-tech packs but they are NiMh 10C ... Not as efficient.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    Those are the ones nano-tech 6s6ah I also picked up some 3s6ah packs at a good price that match them just less cells but like I said they can be plugged in series with their connector to as many you want and if you align the ends you can plug right in without splitting a connector.
    There is a $10 sale on 9.6v 5000mah nano-tech packs but they are NiMh 10C ... Not as efficient.

    so u mean if i have 2x 6ah6s batteries i can connect 3s6ah abtteries with them? i dont get the part when u have diffrent batteries in series. Sorry if iam retard lol.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    "Later on when you want to go further you can get more packs and wire them in parallel with the first set. For max speed you need 14s which I do with a 6s pack and 2 - 4s packs in series."

    so i can get 2x 6ah6s and then connect a few 3s6ah just to add up some volts?
    @JanComputerman

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 13,584 ✭✭✭

    NO!!!! When wiring in series, packs MUST be of the same voltage. Repeat MUST be the same voltage.

    If you connect a 3S to a 6S in series, the two will try to equalise voltage between them with a bang!

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    so if i buy these 22.2v 10000ah batteries i cant get them higher then 50.4v without buying one more battery?25.2 each full charge

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42
  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    FYI I'm an electrical engineer. WTWUK you have your series and parallel reversed.
    2 x 6s6ah in series has 50 volts
    4 x 3s6ah in series has 50 volts
    1 x 6s6ah + 2 x 3s6ah all in series has 50 volts
    Any of these combinations can be connected in parallel at the 50 volt terminals if they are charged to the same state of charge i.e. voltages are within a few tenths of a volt.

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 13,584 ✭✭✭

    Yes. My error.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    FYI I'm an electrical engineer. WTWUK you have your series and parallel reversed.
    2 x 6s6ah in series has 50 volts
    4 x 3s6ah in series has 50 volts
    1 x 6s6ah + 2 x 3s6ah all in series has 50 volts
    Any of these combinations can be connected in parallel at the 50 volt terminals if they are charged to the same state of charge i.e. voltages are within a few tenths of a volt.

    Thanks now i get it.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    In addition ... when you connect in series make sure the amp hours in a series string of batteries are the same. When connecting in parallel the cell count of each string should be the same but you can mix a 6ah string with a 10ah string to get a 16ah total.
    Adding a 3s battery to a couple of 6s in series will give you a 15s battery and that will probably be too high a voltage for your controller and that's when the magic smoke will leak out of the controller! 15 x 4.2 = 63.0 volts at full charge but 15 x 4.0 = 60 volts if not at full charge but so close that it's not worth the risk.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173


    Here is my buddies ebike#1 with a 3d printed battery box I printed using 2 Multistar 6s10ah batteries in series. It has a 30amp power switch, a precharge push button and a Fuel gauge digital display set to show the percent of charge of a lipo 12 cell battery I found on eBay for about $6.50!

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman said:
    In addition ... when you connect in series make sure the amp hours in a series string of batteries are the same. When connecting in parallel the cell count of each string should be the same but you can mix a 6ah string with a 10ah string to get a 16ah total.
    Adding a 3s battery to a couple of 6s in series will give you a 15s battery and that will probably be too high a voltage for your controller and that's when the magic smoke will leak out of the controller! 15 x 4.2 = 63.0 volts at full charge but 15 x 4.0 = 60 volts if not at full charge but so close that it's not worth the risk.

    So if i buy a new controller for example 48-72v i can connect my 2x6s6ah(or 10-12ah) to one more battery that is 3s? so i will add up the volts and the cells, but what happen to the mah?
    Thanks for helping me out, it's much appreciated.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman
    As i said i did email the seller a few days ago and he/she said the controller is 48v and 26 amp and could not go any higher and she said the motor wouldn`t handle more then 48v.
    My guess is the motor could handle more? and i could just buy a better controller and connect one 3s battery to my 2x6s pack in order for it to be 15s and 60v, and it should work even if its around 60v, am i right? And how about the heat when u are up in those volts? ty.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    If i have 2x6s or 2x6s + 1x3s how can i charge them? i want to charge them like its 1 battery so i can just plug 1 wire in so all charge during the night so i wont need to have 3 chargers (1 for every battery)

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    Chances are you talked to a sales person that really didn't know what the controller can do. If you have it, the model info on the controller will tell you the max voltage and current. And even that may be showing a SLA (lead acid) value and it may actually draw more current and handle 60 volts. It's probably a DC MOTO CONTROLLER BY LITHIUM BATTERY says DC48V 26A I have one in my hand and it can handle 58 volts and I have run it at 50v no problem as for current it may go higher than 26amps by a bit. As for charging, you disconnect the power wires from the series adapter and connect the balance connectors together with a 6 pack parallel charge adapter to the P606 and charge them in parallel. You can also get a 50.4 volt charger but it will not keep the batteries balanced and you will over charge a cell or two as their voltage drifts.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 173

    @electric bike said:

    @JanComputerman said:
    In addition ... when you connect in series make sure the amp hours in a series string of batteries are the same. When connecting in parallel the cell count of each string should be the same but you can mix a 6ah string with a 10ah string to get a 16ah total.
    Adding a 3s battery to a couple of 6s in series will give you a 15s battery and that will probably be too high a voltage for your controller and that's when the magic smoke will leak out of the controller! 15 x 4.2 = 63.0 volts at full charge but 15 x 4.0 = 60 volts if not at full charge but so close that it's not worth the risk.

    So if i buy a new controller for example 48-72v i can connect my 2x6s6ah(or 10-12ah) to one more battery that is 3s? so i will add up the volts and the cells, but what happen to the mah?
    Thanks for helping me out, it's much appreciated.

    Just add the 3s6ah battery to the 12s6ah string and add a 3s10ah to the 12s10ah string if you have one and all is good for your 72 volt controller. Don't try that with a 60 volt controller as the caps are usually 63 volts but the FETs will most likely pop and often become dead shorts when they pop. Get used to riding with the 50volt battery before trying more speed. Believe me you have a lot of testing ahead and plenty of time to try new things. HobbyKing sells a parallel charging adapter that can parallel up to 6 batteries with power connectors and the balance connectors. The P606 can charge with different cell counts with the balance connectors including 3 x 2 cell packs 2 x 3 cell packs 2 cell and 4 cell or any crazy combination just be sure the cells are close to the same state of charge before you plug them in parallel or the balance leads will get hot and possibly melt.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    @JanComputerman Sorry if iam annoying but could u please post the links for everything i need for 2x 6s10ah? like charger, and adapter so i can charge them at the same time... wait now when i read your previous posts u say if the batteries are the same volt and mha i can first pararell connect the batteries then just connect the 2xbatteries in the charger and they will charge to the same volt and mha? But if i decide to buy 1 more battery, like a 10ah3s battery do i need to charge the 2xPack first then connect the 3s battery? or is there anyway to charge all the batteries at the same time?

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 42

    i mean serie connect^^

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