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Help! Battery for 1000w ebike

electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

Hello, i need help to choose what battery i need for my ebike, the kit is 1000w 48v and i want to serie connect the batteries.
it needs to be 48v and atleast 15ah.
all parts from hobbyking.com and i want it to be as cheap as possible.

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Comments

  • Richard MahmoudRichard Mahmoud Club Members Posts: 4 mod

    Hi
    For 48V you will need 12s. I would suggest using 16000mAh 6s 12c running 2 packs in series

    You can get our Multistar 16000mAh currently on special at a very good price.

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-16000mah-6s-12c-multi-rotor-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

    Kind regards
    Richard

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @Richard Mahmoud said:
    Hi
    For 48V you will need 12s. I would suggest using 16000mAh 6s 12c running 2 packs in series

    You can get our Multistar 16000mAh currently on special at a very good price.

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-16000mah-6s-12c-multi-rotor-lipo-pack-w-xt90.html

    Kind regards
    Richard

    thanks but its too expensive...... i want many small batteries (3-5) for around 100euro.
    the links you posted was 16ah each, i just need battery time for a 10km ride with around 40km/h.

    i was thinking to use 5 of these https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-flightmax-3000mah-3s1p-20c.html but its in total 55v so its too much.

    Thanks

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    You are never going to get anywhere near 10km with those 3000mAh packs.

    You are wiring them in series so you get the voltage but CAPACITY which gives you range, remains the same at 3000mAh.

    The previous poster was correct. What you want to accomplish is not going to be 'cheap'.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @WTWUK said:
    You are never going to get anywhere near 10km with those 3000mAh packs.

    You are wiring them in series so you get the voltage but CAPACITY which gives you range, remains the same at 3000mAh.

    The previous poster was correct. What you want to accomplish is not going to be 'cheap'.

    so if i have multiple 3000 in series it will stay at the same cap? oh it thought it would be 3000+3000+3000+3000+3000 :(

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    Yes. Series = voltage increase. Parallel = capacity increase.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @WTWUK said:
    Yes. Series = voltage increase. Parallel = capacity increase.

    Thanks, so if i build a own 18650 battery with many samsung cells connected it can be 15ah 48v pretty cheap? sorry if iam retarded lol

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    How long would a 12ah battery last for in distance on full throttle? (75kg, no hills)

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @Richard Mahmoud

    @WTWUK

    can i use any of these for a decent battery? https://www.amazon.com/Garberiel-Battery-Rechargeable-Lithium-Button/dp/B07H47RN7Y/ref=sr_1_14_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1540591069&sr=8-14&keywords=18650+cells build own battery of these or use 4 of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-12AH-SLA-BATTERIES-X-4-12VOLT-12AH/130352813184?hash=item1e59a21480:g:b-4AAMXQy7hRX8KI:rk:1:pf:0 ? i know lead acid batteries arent as good as li batteries but for the price 4 of them can work if i connect them to 48v?

    Sorry again for noob, and thanks for the help

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    Yes. Series = voltage increase. Parallel = capacity increase. > @electric bike said:

    How long would a 12ah battery last for in distance on full throttle? (75kg, no hills)

    What motor/gearing/wheel size ... lots of info needed to calculate 'theoretical' performance.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @WTWUK said:
    Yes. Series = voltage increase. Parallel = capacity increase. > @electric bike said:

    How long would a 12ah battery last for in distance on full throttle? (75kg, no hills)

    What motor/gearing/wheel size ... lots of info needed to calculate 'theoretical' performance.

    Thanks for answear. this is the kit https://www.ebay.com/itm/112497011093?ul_noapp=true its 26inch front wheel

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    and whats the potential speed with that kit?

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35
  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    30mph +/- I would think. Not time to work it out - and even that would be theoretical using 'ideal, perfect world' calculations. Real world use could be entirely different as so many variables would have to be accounted for.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170

    At 30mph you use about 600watts of power depending upon air drag more than anything else. You better have smooth roads ... That's fast on a bike frame ... I rode 1733 miles this year on a full suspension eBike I built average 14-16mph on 6s10ah x2 multistar batteries good for 30+ miles.

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    OP has a 1000W 48V setup ... and having just looked at the link he posted, 30MPH 'should' be on the cards, as the system spec advertises 34MPH. Undoubtedly that will be padded a bit, and in perfect conditions for sure.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170
    edited October 30

    Usually you need the full 58 volts limit of the controller to get 34mph on level road, with 12s you should get 50.8 volts full charge just a little over 30mph before you reach the power/RPM limit due to the motor high winding resistance (relative to a sub ohm winding of high power motors). It will take about 1000+ watts to get up to full speed then it may drop off on the power a bit at full speed, faster with a tail wind slower with any head wind. On a slight down hill I max out at 41mph with 58 volt 14s battery.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    Will the motor/controller handle more then 48v? How much will 6ah-8ah-10ah-12ah last with like 25mph average?
    Thanks!
    @JanComputerman
    @WTWUK

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    I sent the seller on ebay if the kit could handle more then 48v because i found a 55.5v battery but they said no. (55.5v battery 2ah lmao)

  • Jason PhelanJason Phelan Club Members Posts: 46
    edited October 30

    This is a bit out of my depth. But I'm learning alot here.
    Could you pack inexpensive cells in parallel to achieve your 10 to 15 amps.
    Then add more of these packs in series to achieve desired voltage?

    Wiring would be like spaghetti (Toyota engine bay -lol) but wouldn't this be a cheaper alternative for a person on a budget?

    You could base this around turnigy heavy duty batteries.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @Jason Phelan yes u can but for me its difficult as F, and its hard to find all the parts i need for it and i dont have a spot welder just a weak 30w solder iron :(

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170

    Ok speed demons ... air drag is the major factor and 25mph on a bike, bicycle bike, starts getting into the going too fast for your own safety area. Start with a small 6ah battery pack that you can afford and then parallel another set when you need more range. For best price shop by the cost per watt hour i.e. 4v x 6ah x6 cells = watt hours (approximately). The faster you go the quicker the battery runs down, let a 75 year old buddy ride my ebike and he killed the 6ah battery in 16 minutes doing drag races. A good efficient setup should use 6-10 watt hours per mile with a little pedaling but going fast will use more like 15 watt hours per mile. Two 6s6ah packs in series should get you 20 to 30 miles unless you run full throttle @1000 watts you get maybe 15 minutes.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170

    @electric bike said:
    Will the motor/controller handle more then 48v? How much will 6ah-8ah-10ah-12ah last with like 25mph average?
    Thanks!
    @JanComputerman
    @WTWUK

    The controllers are usually in the 60 volt range for maximum as that is one of the FET breakdown voltages of common parts, next is 75 volts. However they specify certain voltages for protection of the battery pack to prevent running them down too low. Usually the controller will stop running when the battery gets low so that is something you need to match the battery to the controller and then monitor with cell meters on the balance ports - set to 3.6 volt low limit and have ones with a beep alarm - well worth the $6 for two - one for each 6 cell pack. HK Lipo packs are way easier than building the packs with 18650 cells BELIEVE ME - ask me how I know! Get a good balance charger and charge them in parallel nice and slow so you get long life out of the packs and see how they are doing. Get a series adapter cable and either XT60 or XT90 connectors packs. If you get the XT90 get a XT90s connector to eliminate the plug in surge to the controller! You hit the caps with 50+ volts when you plug in - it arcs the hell out of the connectors.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    @JanComputerman said:

    @electric bike said:
    Will the motor/controller handle more then 48v? How much will 6ah-8ah-10ah-12ah last with like 25mph average?
    Thanks!
    @JanComputerman
    @WTWUK

    The controllers are usually in the 60 volt range for maximum as that is one of the FET breakdown voltages of common parts, next is 75 volts. However they specify certain voltages for protection of the battery pack to prevent running them down too low. Usually the controller will stop running when the battery gets low so that is something you need to match the battery to the controller and then monitor with cell meters on the balance ports - set to 3.6 volt low limit and have ones with a beep alarm - well worth the $6 for two - one for each 6 cell pack. HK Lipo packs are way easier than building the packs with 18650 cells BELIEVE ME - ask me how I know! Get a good balance charger and charge them in parallel nice and slow so you get long life out of the packs and see how they are doing. Get a series adapter cable and either XT60 or XT90 connectors packs. If you get the XT90 get a XT90s connector to eliminate the plug in surge to the controller! You hit the caps with 50+ volts when you plug in - it arcs the hell out of the connectors.

    First of all thanks for the answer and explanation.

    WIth 6s 6ah u mean something like this? https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nano-tech-6000mah-6s-25-50c-lipo-pack.html they are only 22.2v each so its 44.4 togheter? or can i overcharge them? The link up here ^ is cheap i know but still expensive for me, some videos on youtube build 20-12ah 48v batteries for under 100$ one even said 55$. They are made by chinese cells from alibaba/aliexpress but still it sounds pretty nice if i could get it to work.

    is this a good charger? https://www.ebay.com/itm/IMAX-B6-LCD-Screen-Digital-RC-Balance-Charger-for-Lipo-NiMh-Battery-Adapter-CO/302546132210?hash=item4671279cf2:m:mUG18aPzO0NSal8KrUqdI3g:rk:1:pf:0

    Thanks man u made my day!
    @JanComputerman

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    And please tell me how u know its a bad idea to builda 18650 battery hehe.

  • Jason PhelanJason Phelan Club Members Posts: 46

    Sounds like a bit of a back story there. /me gets popcorn.

    @ElectricBike
    Been there done that. Big cables, small soldering iron. Heatsoak damage in 3..2..1..

    So go another idea for ya. Have you thought about RC Car packs like this.

    BTW the plug hole goes all the way through. You'll still need to make a wiring loom, but you'll only need to solder connecters. Any heat build up won't soak back to the cells and risk damaging them. Though you may want to invest in a butane soldering iron for this..

    Just a thought.

  • electric bikeelectric bike Club Members Posts: 35

    That might work..... any links? thanks for the idea!

    @Jason Phelan

  • Jason PhelanJason Phelan Club Members Posts: 46

    Actually @electric bike, if you run the figures @Richard Mahmoud is correct.
    Prolly why he's admin and we're not LOL

    On the cheap, 15Ah is going to cost around $100 on special @2s (x4)
    And you need 6 of em to make your 44.4v (12s)
    And the prices are based on %50 off

    Richards original suggestion, even at full price is the cheapest way to go! $372AUD vs $600. $300 if you're quick. Think the sale is all of November.

    Don't worry mate, you're not alone getting your head around lipos. They screw with my head.

  • WTWUKWTWUK CornwallClub Members Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭

    Beware of Multistars though...
    All of mine required some careful 1C charge/discharge cycles to get them in a fit state before proper use.
    The first one I had, I used as normal and its performance was lacklustre to say the least. After some cycling it was ok for a while, and then puffed up.

    I use none of them hard.

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170

    P606 is a balance connector charger that takes a while but does a great job of getting every cell full with the mAh for each cell displayed. That lets you know if you have a problem and how big. Yeah multistar batteries have issues if you are careful they do well since an eBike is drawing about 30amps max all should be good. 18650 cells require several in parallel to get 30amps and weight starts to add up quickly. Put a couple of 6s6ah nano-tech batteries in a padded bag and you are good to go and at 20C you have way more amps (120A) just KEEP the cell volts above 3.6 and they should not puff. The HXT4 connector on older nano-tech packs can do a series connect by plugging into each other or make a jumper with a small halogen bulb 120v and 30amp power switch for your charging circuit. The voltage of 6s is 25.2 at full charge X2 is 50.4 volts (12x4.2) and since most chargers handle 6 cell packs stick with two 6 cell packs! If you can wait for black Friday for a sale like I did last year ...oh boy did I go crazy 6s12ah graphene! Talk about low output resistance!

  • JanComputermanJanComputerman Rhode IslandClub Members Posts: 170
    edited November 2

    Story ... My 75 year old buddy has the first eBike build I did last summer. He left it in his condo leaning against the wall and battery connected ... Power switch on the battery box was off but has a 1500 ohm resistor across the switch as precharge for the controller caps. He didn't use it for 3 weeks and guess what ... Bumped the handlebar controller switch on and drained the two Multistar 6s10ah batteries to zero volts. They did not puff! One charged up and continues to work great from completely drained while the other has only two cells out of 6 that would charge. Rule of thumb is disconnect your battery when done! Even the balance port cell monitor meters will discharge the battery eventually.

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